How This Genius Founder Sold His CRM SaaS for 8 Figures in Just 3 Years!

Upendra Varma: 00:00:00

Hello everyone. Welcome to the B2B SaaS podcast. I'm your host Upendra Varma. And today we have Yash Javed. Yash here is the co founder and CEO of a company called Momentum Ventures. Hey Yash, welcome to the show.

Yash Shah: 00:00:12

Thank you. Thank you for having me.

Upendra Varma: 00:00:14

Yeah. So Yash, let's try to understand what Momentum does, right? And how are you helping SaaS founders these days?

Yash Shah: 00:00:20

So Momentum primarily helps SaaS founders and SaaS firms acquire, convert, and retain customers, um, primarily builds out, uh, sustainable, scalable, repeatable go to market strategies for SaaS companies. Um, and, and we work, uh, with SaaS founders, identify skill gaps within their team and, um, and, and, and across engineering, marketing, and design, we fill those gaps.

Upendra Varma: 00:00:44

And what sort of an engagement are we talking about, right? So do you come in with your team and like, just help us walk through maybe a couple of, you know, recent firms that you work with so that we can get, you know, understand it.

Yash Shah: 00:00:56

Sure. No, absolutely. So, uh, we primarily, uh, uh, start with a, with a problem definition. Uh, so we identify problem, consequence, solution, metric, um, and then, and then we identify what are the gaps in terms of skills, uh, that exist within the client's existing team. Um, and then we work together to figure out, uh, what would be the team structure. We build that and then it essentially works as an extension of the team. Um, and it's primarily sort of an, an output, uh, driven, um, engagement that we have. So we work with them on an OKR method, which is objective and key results. We do weekly check ins. Um, that's something that we did at ClientJoy as well. And, um, and so we identify what are the objectives, what are the key results, what are the initiatives, and then, and then check in every week, uh, whether how, uh, are we moving towards our goals. And, um, so as an example, one of the clients that we have is cloud presenter, cloud presenter is the meetings webinars platform. Um, uh, and, and so we, uh, came in, understood that there are certain challenges that they're facing in terms of there is significant amount of traffic that is coming in, but it is not converting into signups and the signups are not converting into paid customers. And so we work with them on, on, uh, optimizing their conversions across their website, working on user activations, uh, after the signup has happened, Um, in terms of tours, emails, trip campaigns, um, stuff like that, right? So, um, so that's typically how we sort of engage.

Upendra Varma: 00:02:22

Yeah, it looks like you do a lot of things, but do you primarily stick to just the GTM side of things? Or because I see, I see a couple of engineers as well in your team. How does that even work?

Yash Shah: 00:02:33

So, uh, engineers primarily also, uh, are required for, uh, for implementations, right? So, so as an example, implementation of CRM, implementation of a product of analytics, implementation of affiliate programs. So the engineers that we have, they, they primarily work on GTM related, uh, engineering challenges. That, uh, that a SaaS company might have. So they also work on rev ops. Uh, but yeah, so, so that's primarily where, where we are.

Upendra Varma: 00:02:59

Yeah. That makes sense. And just help us understand that. So how many clients you've worked with so far or how many active clients you're working with today?

Yash Shah: 00:03:07

So we, we worked, uh, in total with about 23 clients. We currently have five clients, five active clients, uh, 23 SaaS products, uh, up until now. Uh, help them at various parts of the funnel. Um, and uh, uh, essentially, uh, so one of those 23, so 22 clients actually. So one of those was client journey. Um, that we, that we built, grew, um, and operated, uh, and did everything for it. Um, but yeah, so, so that's sort of where we are.

Upendra Varma: 00:03:35

Okay. That makes sense. And just help us understand the engagement model because like, it looks like you're bringing in a lot of expertise. That's, that's not, you know, so easy to explain even in the first place, right? So how do you charge one of your clients then?

Yash Shah: 00:03:47

So, uh, the idea is, the idea is that the, the, so let's say if you're a SaaS founder, my conversation to you, conversation with you is if you're able to move your sign up to paid conversion rate from let's say 5 percent to 7, 7 and a half percent. That's only a 2. 5 percent improvement, but it's, it's actually 50 percent more revenue. Um, would you give me five months, uh, to, to work on that and, and, and how much amount of value can I generate for it? So let's assume that you're doing 50, 000 in MRR, if that 50 can move to 65, um, with our engagement in, in MRR over the next four or five months. Assuming that there is no other effort that's going on on your top of the fund. This is just the same traffic, uh, that's, that's coming in. So that's, so it's, it's primarily value based pricing. So depending on the scale of the SaaS company that we engage with. We figured out how much is this worth? And so the problem definitions are, uh, hey, you know, I'm I'm losing. So as an example, I'm, I'm doing like 23, 000 in monthly. I will not be able to name the time. This is very specific, but, um, I'm doing 23 K in, in MRR and losing 1, 500 as Joan, right. Which is, which is above, uh, what it, what it should be significantly higher than what it should be. Um, how do we fix that? Right. And so then we sign in and we get access to Everything that you have starting from Google analytics to, uh, to your intercom to mix panel to, uh, to Stripe, to, to bear metrics, whatever it is, um, we go in, we also join you on your demo calls. We do customer interviews. We look at your comparators, G2 reviews, all of those things. And we come back to you with a couple of strategies that we can, um, and that's when the pricing conversations happen. So it is, it is a, at this point of time, it's, it's a boutique consulting, right? So, so we don't have, it's not like we have a series of offerings. Right. Um, that okay, we'll do like SEO, we'll do like PPC, we'll do XYZ, um, it's primarily tell me a problem, uh, tell me the consequence of that problem, um, we'll dig in, identify what the solutions could be, and then, uh, and then we'll work on a success metric, right? That if we are able to achieve it. If you're able to take this from X to Y, X to X plus Y in the next five months, six months, then here's how it would work.

Upendra Varma: 00:05:57

Give us a sense of these, you know, founded profiles or company profiles, right? So who are these people? Are they primarily technical founders who's looking for that GTM expertise or are these, you know, bootstrap companies who doesn't have too much funds to, you know, hire a crazy GTM team. And so they're coming to you. It's like, just help us understand, you know, the profiling of this particular company.

Yash Shah: 00:06:16

So it's typically, uh, we work with 20, 000 to about a hundred thousand dollars in MRR, uh, types of SaaS companies in developed economies. Um, more often than not, these are engineering founders who have found early success in the market. Um, and so, so they would have probably anywhere between five to 10 years of work experience and they are well networked. We have. Tremendously good understanding of the problem and they've built a great solution. They've spoken to the customers, but, uh, and the first couple of years of building the SAS product was went under the assumption that if you build a good, build a good product, then more people will come to the product, right? Which, which now is turning out to be false. And so, uh, so probably typically like for the past three or four months, they are acquiring as many. So like they are acquiring. Um, exactly, almost exactly equal to the equal dollar amount as, as much as they are churning out. Um, and they're feeling that they're stagnating. And in that process, a couple of other similar competitors have also come out and they've seen them doing a little better. Um, and so that's, that's typically like a, like a founder profile. More often than not, they are tech based. A lot of times they're also, uh, growth and marketing people. Uh, there are a lot of times that, that they have a, you know, five people, seven people marketing team as well. But then in those cases, there are specific GTM channels that they don't know how to activate or they've already tried. So, uh, typically when they start to build a GTM team, they would have, um, you know, and a person in content marketing, a person in PPC, a person, a couple of those things, right? Um, and, and, uh, it's difficult to find someone who's already run an affiliate program or run an, uh, run a referral program or has implemented PLG motions, right? And so my conversation to them is, uh, you know, so like my first call with them starts with like five, seven mistakes that we did at ClientJoin and, um, and, and which is where they find a lot of related, right? Uh, but Hey, you know, this is already happening with us or this happened with us. You know, a couple of quarters ago. And, um, and, and so in cases where there are growth founders, we engage on specific GTM channel more often than not, they are engineering founders though, who have tremendously good understanding of the problem, the founder, the success. Um, and now they're trying to figure out how to actually scale this.

Upendra Varma: 00:08:25

Yeah. So one last question here before we sort of understand your journey with ClientJoy, right? So where are you finding all of this, you know, Founders in companies. Right. So what's, what's your channel that's been working for you yourself to, to work with?

Yash Shah: 00:08:38

uh, up until now, it's primarily been network. So having run a SaaS company for three and a half years, I'm fairly well connected with a lot of other SaaS founders. Uh, because it's typically like we have each other's shoulders to cry on. Um, and so, so it's from the community. So some amount of. credibility building that has happened within the community that is helpful in, um, in, in acquiring these customers, um, going forward. And it's, it's been, it's been a very short amount of time, right? So it's, it's only been about, I think, uh, four, four and a half months as we started momentum. Um, and, and we can talk why it's, it's only been four and a half months, but, um, but yeah, so, uh, so, so up until now, it's just definite, um, what we are, uh, ourselves are working on ad momentum is creating internal SOPs, right? So, so we are essentially, uh, importing the SOPs that we had, uh, when we were running a SaaS platform, uh, when we were running client driven, uh, but, but those were for internal users, right? Those are not meant for clients to look at. And so now we are sort of. Doing some amount of paint work on them, uh, making them beautiful, making them as if someone can understand it in absence of, uh, me or a couple of other people who we have as part of the core team. And, um, so that's, that's a function that, that we need to fix first. Uh, and then, and then we'll start to build. So the idea of just using referral networks was to, was to get an understanding of. Um, of who our ideal clients are, um, which we are, which we, which I would say we are, we are getting there.

Upendra Varma: 00:10:08

So, so yes, like why start a consulting firm after you, you have a successful, you know, SaaS? It's often the other way around. So people go from agencies to SaaS because they, they're tired of, you know, working with individual people and all of it. Now they just want to sell software and be done with it. So why the other way around?

Yash Shah: 00:10:23

Yeah. No. So, uh, this is, uh, so interestingly, um, before client joy, I ran an agency for five years. And so, uh, so I, I built a tech agency, uh, uh, built 23 SAS products as a part of that tech agency. Um, and, and we were a 55 people team at that point of time when we decided to, um, sort of, uh, drop that and

Upendra Varma: 00:10:46

big was that in terms of top line revenue that you did for that agency? Just want to get a sense

Yash Shah: 00:10:49

Um, not a lot. We were, we were, uh, we were close to, uh, in today's dollar value, we were close to like anywhere between 500 to 650K in top line, right? So, so that was not a lot. Um, but where it is good profitability, um, and we, we got to take some capital home at that point of time and give us cushion to, to start something like, like client at that time. So, but coming to the, to the question as to why, uh, uh, start an agency is, is this is so the last three and a half years I've burned myself, um, uh, so burned myself in terms of, uh, the amount of effort that I've had to put into to grow as Aspirin, right? So, So, so the next three years is, is where I'm looking and hunting for other product ideas as well. And then this is just, uh, essentially something to, to keep in touch with the market. What are the things that are happening? And, and so, so it's, it's, it's, it's a little bit chill, um, because it's not a new business. I've done this for half a decade before, uh, I already have subject matter expertise up to a certain extent, at least for inbound verticals, as I have subject matter expertise. And, um, and then so the, so I work a lot less than I used to work at my dad's still full time, but I work a lot less

Upendra Varma: 00:11:58

That, that makes a lot of sense. Let's talk about the elephant in the room. So what, what was client joy, right? What was the story there? So just, just give us a sense, right? What, what was it, right? Then how much revenue did you grow into and what happened after that? Just summarize it for us.

Yash Shah: 00:12:13

sure. So, um, primarily, uh, uh, is a CRM for, uh, agencies and freelancers, uh, fairly small agencies. Um, we ourselves, as I shared with you, we were ourselves with a tech agency, 50 people team. Um, we were using, uh, at the time we were using PipeDrive, uh, Pandadoc, um, and then client management was happening on Asana and Slack, uh, followed by, um, I think Zendesk or something like that for ticketing. And then, uh, uh, QuickBooks for invoicing at the time QuickBooks was available in India and, uh, and it was extremely difficult, right? So client conversations would still happen over WhatsApp and email. And we were like, you know, a typical project has like five or six people, you know, working Um, on our team and we cannot have eight tools for a project that is, that is employing five or six people on our team. Um, and so, uh, so, so we started looking out for, for other solutions. We found a couple of great solutions out there. Um, but then, but then we also started speaking to our, um, uh, you know, friends who are also running the agency. And then the conversation was, you know, when we genuinely looked out, there were these solutions. Why aren't you using them? Um, And there were conversations around the, you know, spreadsheets are better. Uh, we make decisions from our gut. Um, uh, we have, we don't have a lot of clients because we are high ticket agencies. And so our clients typically pay us 15k to 20k a month. Um, and we're only a 35, 40 people team or something like that. Um, and, but ultimately all of that meant that there was a lack of visibility. Um, and the, the client, so the client agency relationship was under stress, right? So the clients always felt that they are working. And the agency always felt that they were overworking. uh, and so we said, this is, this seems to be an interesting space. Um, this is very crowded, which means that there is always a market. Um, and B2B is not like B2C, right? Which is where the winner takes like 90 percent of the market or

Upendra Varma: 00:14:08

so yeah, I'll, I'll, I'll sort of get into the metrics, right? I think you're, you're asking, you're telling, telling me the right thing. So I just want to quantify that as well. Right. So at your peak, right. When you, when you got acquired, that's how many customers you had, how many agencies were serving on your platform approximately,

Yash Shah: 00:14:21

Sure. So 16, 000 customers, um, uh, so 16, 000 agencies from 90 odd countries, um, were using ClientJoy. Um, they were using ClientJoy to. Um, to, to engage with about 1.8 million leads, uh, to, uh, manage about 78,000

Upendra Varma: 00:14:39

and how big of a, how big of an agency are we talking about? I know there's going to be a spectrum, but median agency that would pay you. Right. So how much would they pay you?

Yash Shah: 00:14:47

so an average would be, uh, an 11. So the average ticket size, uh, would be, uh, anywhere between, uh, let's say 200 to two $50 a month. Um, that would be the average ticket size and their size would be anywhere between 11 to 50 Uh people team size out of which they would buy Probably seven to eight, uh, seven to ten licenses

Upendra Varma: 00:15:10

Okay. And like, and you did all of that in just like two years, right? So that's what I'm understanding.

Yash Shah: 00:15:15

Three and a half,

Upendra Varma: 00:15:16

Three and a half. Okay. And like, like, how did you do that? Right. So then what was that revenue at that point? Like, was that number public? Are you willing to share that?

Yash Shah: 00:15:23

Uh, the revenue number was not public. I would have shared it had we not been acquired, but now it's not mine.

Upendra Varma: 00:15:28

Okay. So did you, did you cross like 1, 000, 000 in revenue at that point, when you were selling it?

Yash Shah: 00:15:33

and you'll run it.

Upendra Varma: 00:15:34

Yes.

Yash Shah: 00:15:35

Oh yeah, yeah,

Upendra Varma: 00:15:35

Yeah. Okay. It's way more than that. Then that, that makes a lot of sense. I just don't want to multiply those two numbers, like 16, 000 and 52, 000, right? I

Yash Shah: 00:15:42

no, you cannot. You shouldn't.

Upendra Varma: 00:15:43

That's why I'm not giving you any numbers. I'm just getting a vague sense of it. Like just help us understand the growth story, right? So like, how do you do that? Right. So how do you get to 16, 000 customers, even though there are SMBs, right? How do you get there? What was that channels that were working for you? And again, just keep like, just like, this is such a crowded space, right? So this is, I mean, CRM for agencies. I mean, that is just so much crowded, right? So how do you get there? So what worked for you?

Yash Shah: 00:16:08

So I think, uh, I think a very, very good understanding of who our ideal customers were. Um, that was most meaningful and I'll also quantify that, right? So, so even when you ask what was client realized at CRM for agencies and freelancers, but, um, uh, and, and that's what we say on the website, uh, and, and, and stuff like that. But, uh, but when we, uh, so after, I think close to what eight or nine months of the product being in the market, we were, uh, Uh, we had close to about 500 odd customers and all of these customers were primarily through code outbound Some amount of network, uh some amount of outreach on linkedin some very basic paid marketing and stuff like that Um, once we had, uh, the 500, uh, customer mark and not all of them were paying, I think we had 70, 80 people who were paying. Uh, but once we reached to the 500 customer mark, we, uh, sort of did a closed one, um, analysis, right. And, and, and divided them into cohorts according to industry, according to size, according to geography. Uh, and what we found was that the 11 to 50 team strength digital agency in us and Canada Um, what sort of the I see, right? And so, so going from, I think about, um, eight, nine K, uh, in MRR per month, 200, 000 MRR per month. Um, all of our efforts, which were our SEO Our lead magnet, our email campaigns that we were doing, uh, even some things that I was sharing on my LinkedIn, all of those things were just answers to the answers to the questions that founders of 11 to 50 digital agencies, us Canada had. And so, so what we would do is, is we would essentially, uh, identify their questions through Reddit for a medium, um, LinkedIn communities, Slack communities. Um, and then, and then we, so, so let's say in a month we would identify 40, 50 questions That these founders would have. Um, we would then put those into SEMrush to identify the balance between keyword difficulty and, and, uh, search volume, as you typically do. We would take those topics, put that in Surfer SEO, um, which would give us the ideal word count, the ideal keyword density. Um, and then from an SOP standpoint, it had to be an eight on 10, um, for that to be approved as a blog. Um, and then we wrote such answers and articles. Um, and then we distributed that, right? So that was our first and the largest channel. Um, I would say the second bit was, were lead magnets. So lead magnets were, were again answers, but they were not eBooks, right? So there's a difference between you should never do eBooks. Uh, I would strongly, if you are inbound, I would strongly recommend not doing eBooks. It's, it's boring. People don't read it. And you genuinely don't put in any effort. I mean, you don't put in a lot of effort and unless you're a brand like stripe or something like that. So, um, so, so, so your lead magnet should be templates, cheat sheets, uh, something that they can print something that they can, uh, they can have a spreadsheet of, or, or make a copy for, um, and stuff like that. So we 16, 17 lead magnets. What we would do is we would launch each one of those lead magnets every so one lead magnet every month on product hunt and then every three months we would identify which one performed better on product hunt and then we would run retargeting ads. Um, for that particular lead magnet, um, on, on, uh, uh, I mean, we tried a bunch of different platforms. Ultimately Instagram worked, uh, well for us. Um, so across Meta, LinkedIn, Twitter, but Instagram, uh, we, we landed on, um, so that was the second sort of biggest channel. The third, uh, biggest channel, uh, was, was competitor, uh, uh, funnel, right? So which is like the typical competitor funnel. I'll not explain it. It's very simple. Um, yeah, so these were the three primary funnels. There were a lot of other experiments that we did. So, we tried, uh, I think we invested 25, 000, 30, 000 in advertisements outside of Google and Meta, um, which didn't work. Um, so we tried advertising on Unsplash, on Behance, um, on, I think there was another platform for digital marketers. Assuming that that these are the people where these are the places that are ICP hangs out, they didn't work, it could be because of the platform, it could be because of us as well, the way we executed that, um, our referrals didn't work, our affiliates work. So we had referral program built in as well. Uh, but that, that didn't work to the expectation, but our affiliates work like, uh, work like that was amazing. Um, uh, yeah, but so, and then there were other, a couple of other, uh, and of course when we were running ads, then of course in that a lot of campaigns were, would fail.

Upendra Varma: 00:20:40

Yeah, so yes, couple of just just a question here, right? I know you've clearly explained this, how you got to these customers, right? So my question is like, why were they coming to you? Like, why were they switching from what they were doing? Today to, for example, let's say the client, right? So what, what did you have that, you know, that made them switch, right? So was that it was that price point? Was that, you know, some 10 X product experience? What was that? If you can,

Yash Shah: 00:21:05

So yeah, no, absolutely. So, so I, I say. Um, an agency matures, uh, in this is a very industry specific answer, right, might not apply to a lot of people, but an agency typically matures up into their CRM purchase journey a lot later than other sectors. So, so as an example, a manufacturing setup or a pharma setup or a, or an educational setup would mature into their CRM purchase journey on the day that they started within the first six months or something like that. And agency uses spreadsheets more often than not until they are 30 people, 20 people, uh, because they don't need a lot of clients, right? Unless they're doing itemized services. So they don't need a lot of clients and they don't feel the need. And so, um, so primarily, uh, how we would, so our inbound was more of demand than actually, so we would, we would have to make them realize that, Hey, if you had this, it will be beneficial. And, uh, the other thing that we, that we did, I think really well was that. Uh, was that the funnels that we built, we sort of took ClientJoy out of the picture, right? So we were, we were trying to be their bigger, big brother of sorts, uh, trying to help them grow their agency. So as an example, if you subscribe to our lead magnet or saw an ad or in any way, shape or form, if we got your email, instead of sending out a monthly newsletter around what are the product updates in ClientJoy, we would send out a weekly newsletter into how you can grow your agency this week. And that content was not necessarily written by us. That content could be a video on YouTube, uh, that is really well produced, like some random podcast, whatever the case may be. And that's what I would do, right? So even at Momentum, I will start a weekly newsletter, where instead of me doing the podcast, I just put in one of your episodes. That if you're, Hey, if you're running a SaaS company, here's a great episode to check out. Um, and so that way, uh, the, the, the only client association was. Like the logo in the email and then everything else was just about them. So that was also helpful. Uh, but but but the Blogs that we wrote and uh and other content pieces as well and even the templates and formats and stuff like that. We wrote um They specifically spoke to the icp that we had so Um, uh, so as an example, one of the lead magnet that we had was, uh, you know, financial projections template for your digital business. Now you don't typically build financial projections, but you, and, and, and at the end of the year, your agency is profitable, but there are two months in that one, in the, in that year where you don't have money to pay salaries because of cashflow problems. And that has happened to you like in the last six months, you're like, Hey, you know, let me get this template and I'll make sure that I plan my payments from my clients like that. Stuff like that. So, so those things were extremely meaningful and

Upendra Varma: 00:23:46

yeah. So you just talk about the whole, you know, exit journey, right? So how did it all happen? Like, was that pre planned all along the way? And who did you sell the company to? And like, just give us more details of what, whatever you can share that.

Yash Shah: 00:23:58

Sure. So, uh, so no, so I can, yeah, apart from the number, I can share everything. So, uh, so we had, uh, we like the typical startup story in India, right. Which is where we got the grant from the government, like the startup India grant. Um, and then, and then we, uh, raised our, uh, we were part of an incubator where we raised our seed capital. And then we raised our angel, uh, from a group of angels, angel round from a group of angels and then raised from a micro VC. Um, uh, so, so there had been three funding rounds, um, and, and then we were trying to raise our, our next, um, and so we're out there in the market raising, um, a few million, um, and, and one of the organizations, I mean, the organization, uh, sign up, which, which acquired us. They reached out saying they might want to, they might consider, uh, you know, leading the round affiliate up to 30, 35%. Um, and so, so that was, that was great. I was already out there pitching and so that was nice. So we got a term sheet, they started the duty. And then I started reaching out to other investors, um, for filling up the rest of the round. Um, a month, month and a half passed by, the duty was done, um, but I was not able to fill the rest of the round. And, uh, so ultimately, uh, the conversation was, Hey, you know, uh, can you do the round alone? Um, it can be smaller check size, but can you do the round alone, which obviously they didn't want to do. Um, because they are a profitable SaaS company and they were doing the investment out of their, uh, out of their, uh, business. Revenues, right? So how do the profits? So, um, so, so that conversation sort of been, uh, didn't go as planned a couple of weeks later, uh, Ashwin from signup, he started saying, um, uh, saying, Hey, you know, have you considered this? And, um, uh, so that was a fairly brief conversation to which Anupama and I, so Anupama was my co founder. She used to look after the, after the product. Um, and, and we had, uh, again, uh, a conversation in the evening, uh, slept the next day morning. Um, I remember feeling a little greedy, um, I'll be honest with you, um, because over the last three and a half years, I mean, I'm seeing these things that we did. I'm, uh, uh, and, and, and these are the things that I said are the things that work. Um, Um, but, but, but there are a lot more things that did, and, and the stress of all of that was, uh, was significant and, um, and, and, and like to be honest, so, so, uh, doing this as company

Upendra Varma: 00:26:26

And like, what was that strategic sort of multiple that you got, or was it more around your cash flows or revenues every time I was like, what was that? I know you're not going to share with numbers, but what was that based on?

Yash Shah: 00:26:38

so it was sort of between, um, so, so typically if you, if you go in and sell a SaaS company, you're likely to get anywhere between 2. 5 to 4X of your revenue. Um, uh, and if you, if you raise funds, you are likely to get between 8 to 15X. I would say we were somewhere in the middle of those two ranges.

Upendra Varma: 00:26:59

So your, your acquisition offer was well above 10 million or something like that.

Yash Shah: 00:27:04

I can neither confirm nor

Upendra Varma: 00:27:06

Sure, sure. And that, that totally helps anyways. Yeah. So yeah, that, that makes a lot of sense. So yeah, yes. I think it's, it's, it's been a wonderful story, right? So the way you, you know, built all of it and you know, the way you're helping SaaS founders out there, right. So definitely recommend a lot of SaaS founders who just, you know, understood the way you've grown your company, right. So it was sort of definitely talk to you, reach out to you if they're sort of facing any issues there. Right. And yeah, thanks for taking the time to talk to me and hope you, you know, just, you Have fun with momentum and maybe, you know, once, once you start, once you're ready for your next venture, just, you know, scale it to much, much greater heights. Thank you.

Yash Shah: 00:27:38

Absolutely. I thank you for, for taking up this initiative. It is meaningful for SAS founders. And thank you for having me. If there's anything that I can do, let me know. I'm happy to, uh, happy to engage in any way I can.

Upendra Varma: 00:27:50

Thank you, Yash.