In this episode host Upendra Varma welcomes Matt Ford, co-founder and CEO of Prism FM, a vertical SaaS solution for the live music industry.
Here are the talking points,
Product:
- Prism FM organizes all elements of planning live events, including financials, paperwork, payments, and accounting.
Understanding the Customers:
- Prism serves various customer profiles, including music venue owners, performing art centers, Broadway organizers, and talent agencies.
Origins and Background:
- Matt’s journey into building Prism stemmed from his experience as a concert promoter and tech entrepreneur.
- He identified the industry’s need for a software system to streamline operations.
Initial Growth and Challenges:
- Matt initially closed the first 20 deals personally, leveraging his network and attending conferences.
- Transitioning from founder-led sales to a team-based approach, Prism explored channels like SEO/SEM and traditional marketing.
Sales Process and Pricing Strategy:
- Sales cycles vary, with smaller deals closing quicker and larger deals taking longer.
- Prism employs a sophisticated sales pitch focusing on price validation and showcasing value through time and efficiency gains.
Product Marketing and Network Effects:
- Word of mouth plays a significant role due to inherent network effects, with existing users advocating for Prism within their networks.
- Product marketing emphasizes the platform’s ability to connect and streamline workflows between venues and talent agencies.
Team and Product Development:
- Prism’s team consists of 26 members primarily focused on product development, engineering, sales, and customer support.
- Matt underscores the importance of in-house product development, emphasizing quality over outsourcing.
Funding and Vision:
- Prism recently closed a $5 million Series B round, totaling $15 million in funding.
- Matt envisions Prism becoming an industry standard within the live music sector, with plans for expansion and potential acquisitions.
Future Growth:
- While specific revenue targets remain uncertain, Matt believes Prism has the potential to reach hundreds of millions in recurring revenue.
- The focus remains on evolving the product to meet industry needs and capitalize on network effects.
Transcript
Yeah.
2
:Hello everyone.
3
:Welcome to the B2B SaaS podcast.
4
:I'm your host Binz Overmind.
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:Today, we have Matt Ford with us.
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:Matt here is the co founder and
CEO of a company called Prism FM.
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:Hey Matt, welcome to the show.
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:Matt Ford: Hey, really
grateful to be here.
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:Thank you.
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:Upendra Varma: All right, Matt.
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:Let's try to understand,
right, what Prism is, right?
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:And why customers are even paying
you money in the first place.
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:Matt Ford: I just, I still ask
myself that question also, so I don't
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:know if I can answer that for you.
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:All jokes aside, Prism is a vertical SaaS
solution for the live music industry.
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:So everyone who professionally
plans concerts is our concerts are
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:live events, uh, comedy, Broadway.
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:Um, And, uh, yeah, they pay us
to use our software system and
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:our software system organizes all
elements of planning an event.
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:So from, uh, all the financial
surrounding event, the, all the
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:paperwork, the payments, the financial
reporting, the accounting all in
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:one like purpose built system.
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:Upendra Varma: And who exactly are
these people who are paying you?
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:Right?
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:So I'll just talk a bit about them.
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:Matt Ford: Yeah, we have a few
customer profiles that the software
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:works really well for music, venue
owners, people who run performing art
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:centers, uh, Broadway organizers, and
then we have the talent side of the
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:business, which is, um, talent agency.
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:So people who represent the band and are
doing like the business of the bookings.
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:Upendra Varma: That makes a lot of sense.
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:Right?
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:So, and let's, let's move on
to understanding a bit about
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:your customers here, right?
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:Because I think it's pretty clear
and it's a clear vertical SaaS here.
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:So, so just, just give us
some context here, right?
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:How did it even start?
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:Right?
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:How did you sort of, you know,
Come up with this idea of, you
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:know, starting a SaaS in this
particular vertical niche, right?
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:What's your background and
how did it all start for you?
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:Matt Ford: Well, first off, I didn't,
I didn't even know the word vertical
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:SAS, to be honest, until I was like
many years into building prism.
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:So I didn't start off aspiring
to create a vertical SAS company.
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:Um, it just so happened
that it worked out that way.
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:Um, and you know, really I was,
I've just been following my passion.
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:Um, and you know, so taught myself how
to code in college, started a company.
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:It was successful in the live music space.
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:Um, we had hundreds of thousands of users.
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:I worked with a bunch of, you
know, really got something off the
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:ground and proven, proven myself.
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:And then a lot of projects
just started coming my way.
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:And one of those projects that I
found really interesting was, uh,
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:Was a, uh, um, a festival system that
I helped build out with a partner.
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:Um, just like a way for people
to organize music festivals.
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:And I actually dog fooded the
technology myself and started a
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:music festival so that I could
really understand the technology.
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:Um, I was like early twenties, like
pretty scrappy, crazy idea to just say,
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:Oh yeah, let me just, I'm a tech guy.
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:Let me just like start up a festival.
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:Um, but the festival really
worked and it led to me getting
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:a bunch of, um, opportunities to
book venues in and around Austin.
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:I ran the festival for four years.
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:I almost like became a concert promoter.
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:Um, I almost lost my identity
as a tech entrepreneur and
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:became a concert promoter.
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:And I think, you know, that's what
helped me deeply understand the space.
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:And then just through my experience
in the problem myself and meeting
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:other organizers of concerts.
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:Um, I saw that they were all running
their business off of spreadsheets
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:that, you know, bedding together
quick books with calendars, with
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:spreadsheets and, and no one had a
really great kind of system of truth.
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:And, you know, given my software
background, I could, you know, see
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:that and, um, and, you know, made
it come to life and called it prism.
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:And I've been working on it ever since.
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:And this was about like 20, we
officially launched in:
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:It took all of:it and get it off the ground.
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:And then:
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:Upendra Varma: Got it.
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:And what exactly were you
doing before you started Prism?
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:Was, were you doing some sort of
consultancy or what was that exactly?
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:Matt Ford: Yeah, so I, so there
was a company that predated
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:Prism, um, and it was part concert
promoter and part software.
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:So I had created like an Airbnb
for venues and artists to match.
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:Um, so I had over a thousand bands signed
up in Austin and I was really mostly
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:using it myself to like have a roster
of bands that I was booking personally.
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:We never really succeeded in
getting other kind of professional
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:venues to use the software.
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:I don't think it was the right, um,
I've seen this, I've seen this kind
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:of idea get tried many, many, many
times, like Airbnb for booking.
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:Um, and there's many reasons why
it, you know, I could tell you why
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:I don't think it is economically
feasible, at least currently.
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:Um, but you know, that, that led me
realizing that it wasn't like the,
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:it wasn't like the core booking kind
of network that the industry needed.
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:It was more of like a,
uh, like a salesforce.
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:com super customized for the industry to
like kind of, to ha to handle the fire
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:hose that they all are drinking from
on a daily basis, as opposed to adding
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:more complexity to their organization.
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:Um, so that's, yeah, that's what I was
doing for Prism was I was, it was, you
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:know, part booking, part software system.
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:Upendra Varma: All right.
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:So let's, let's come back to today, right?
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:So, so how many customers
are we talking about today?
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:How many paying customers are
you, are using Prism today?
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:Matt Ford: We have 315 organizations,
something like that, booking over
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:10, 000 venues around the world and
a hundred thousand concerts and, um,
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:in total, there's about a, a billion
dollars of payments flowing through Prism
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:Upendra Varma: And then give
us a sense of how they pay you.
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:Is it, is it, is it simply a subscription
based platform or do you take a cut
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:on, you know, in terms of the revenue
that, that goes through your platform?
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:What happens?
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:Matt Ford: it's purely subscription
right now, which is determined by the
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:size of their business by a sales rep
and, um, and it's upsold on renewal,
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:like we don't currently have a lot,
any like automation built into.
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:Um, the SAS fees, like, Oh,
turn on this module or add a.
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:No, like user account or, um, we don't
have anything feature gated really.
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:Um, it's just, we, we have account
management that handles upsell and, um,
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:and sales reps that like really, you know,
right sides, the deals as they come in.
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:Uh, we do plan to take, um, eventually a
cut of transactions process through prism.
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:Um, but that's not yet.
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:Um, we're not doing that yet.
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:Upendra Varma: And then how big of a
deals are we talking about Matt here?
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:And so approximately, is
it a thousand dollar deal?
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:Is it a 10, 000 deal?
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:Is it a hundred thousand dollar deal?
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:How much do your organizations
pay you typically on average?
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:Matt Ford: Yeah.
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:On the high end, we have folks,
you know, deep into the hundreds
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:of thousands of dollars.
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:And on the low end, we go down to like 5,
000 a year and a lot of stuff in between.
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:So it's, it's pretty, it's pretty wide.
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:Upendra Varma: that median?
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:What's that median look like?
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:Something that you sort of
focus on a regular basis.
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:Matt Ford: Oh, like maybe, maybe
like 15, 000 a year, 12, 000 a year.
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:That's that's yeah.
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:Upendra Varma: That
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:Matt Ford: mean, it's a lot
of everything to be honest.
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:Upendra Varma: it always is.
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:So I'm just, I'm just sort of trying to
understand your sales motion because I'm
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:going to ask a lot of questions there.
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:So just trying to get a sense
of what that deal looks like.
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:Matt Ford: Our, our scatterplot is all
over the place, but you could imagine
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:that, you know, it's a, it's a higher
volume of deals on the lower end,
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:the medium to lower end and a smaller
volume on the higher end, um, that
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:we would like, you know, that would
be amazing if it was reversed, but
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:it seems to be that way of the world.
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:Upendra Varma: And then approximately how
much revenue are you doing today, right?
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:Approximate numbers totally work.
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:Just to get a sense of
where you are as a company.
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:Matt Ford: Um, yeah, we're, we're, uh,
I'm going to be intentionally vague
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:just cause we don't publicize our
revenue, but you know, we're, we're
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:below 10 million in recurring revenue.
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:Well, well below
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:Upendra Varma: you above five, 6 million?
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:Is that
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:Matt Ford: you could infer that if you
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:Upendra Varma: sure?
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:Yeah, I think that's
more than enough for me.
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:Right.
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:So, so just want to get a sense
of how you're growing as well.
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:Right.
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:So.
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:Over the past 12
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:Matt Ford: Yeah.
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:We've been, we've been
growing since our inception.
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:We've been growing around like a hundred
percent year over year and sustain.
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:I mean, early on, like law of small
numbers, like we had one year where
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:we went from 40 K to 400 K and that
was 10 X, but You know, um, but you
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:know, after our initial kind of pop,
we, we've been sustaining about,
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:you know, two X year over year.
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:Upendra Varma: got it, right.
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:So enough about the numbers, right?
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:So I want to understand what's happening
and what's working for you, right?
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:So the past 12 months, right?
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:So just help us understand
where you're getting all of
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:these new customers from, right?
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:What's really been working for you
purely from a top of funnel perspective,
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:where are they discovering you?
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:Matt Ford: It, I mean, it's, there's
no, no silver bullet right now.
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:Like I think, you know, the product
has built in Network effects.
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:So, um, there's a ton of
world and word of mouth.
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:Um, like if you, if you are a talent
agent and you use Prism and the promoters
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:are using Prism, you, you want the
promoters to use Prism because it
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:saves you massive amounts of time and
it's a better organ to organization.
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:So there's a, there's a lot of like
kind of multi sided pressure to join
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:the network and we're, we're leaning
in on that more and more and more, like
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:some of the best things If you can pull
it off the best marketing strategy is
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:like products, you know, um, and all
the paperwork that leaves prism has our
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:logo on it and our marketing website.
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:So we generate a lot of marketing just
through product use, which is fantastic.
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:Um, but then we do traditional
marketing, SEO, SCM, and we have
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:sales reps go to conferences.
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:Um, we have sales reps work relationships
and, um, and, you know, I, I do a podcast
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:similar to you do here and blast out
to the network and, um, just every,
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:we try to leave no stone unturned in
terms of like top of funnel strategies.
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:Upendra Varma: So I'm going to ask
you a bit of a question here, right?
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:So if you were to pick two
channels, that's, that's, that
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:you would really not want to sort
of invest your time into, right?
200
:What are those two channels which
contributed to most of this, you
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:know, brand awareness or, you
know, new customers coming through,
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:coming through that funnel?
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:Matt Ford: Well, what are
the two that if I had to do
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:Upendra Varma: Yeah, that's,
that's really been working for you.
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:Matt Ford: product marketing, um,
and I'd say it's a toss up between
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:conferences and SEO and SEM.
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:Upendra Varma: Got it.
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:All right.
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:So, so now let's, let's sort of understand
a bit about your product marketing here,
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:because that's, that's something that
unique that I've seen over, you know,
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:with respect to your company, just
talk about how it all works, right?
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:So the way I'm understanding you, you
sell your product to a bunch of business
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:users and they sort of onboard more people
into the network and they sort of start
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:seeing it and then that sort of spirals
up like what, how does it exactly work?
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:Can you just explain that?
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:Matt Ford: Yeah, so when you're when
you're planning one concert, you have
217
:oversimplified, you have the venue,
and then you have the talent agency
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:and the venue and the talent agency
coordinate an amazing amount of details.
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:Like the the first thing they do
is generate like a pro forma of the
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:show, we call it an offer, and it lays
out all the financials of the event.
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:And they send that to the agent, the
agent, if they're not using prison,
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:the agent, like just kind of copies
and paste that information into their
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:system, generates a contract with
all the, and, and these, these deal
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:points have like probably 30 deal
points that are meaningful and matter.
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:So the, the data entry
is extremely tedious.
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:Uh, and then all through the life
cycle of the event, they're just doing
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:all these things that, you know, a
software platform can handle really
228
:easily, but if they're not connected.
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:Like it just turns out
to be a bunch of emails.
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:So, um, if, if the venue and the agent
is both using prism, the, the deal
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:points are all translated perfectly.
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:The ticket sales update in real time,
the settlement numbers update in
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:real time, the payment information.
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:I mean, it's a nine day difference
from one, two people are using
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:prism compared to like when one
is in prison and one is not.
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:So, um, it's really, it's like,
uh, Implicit network effects.
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:There's not like an explicit
way for someone to say.
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:Hey, just join prism here
without like talking to us.
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:And perhaps we'll get
into that more and more.
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:But, um, right now it's like very
much like, uh, you know, yeah, it's,
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:our partners want their partners
to join prism and go through our
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:onboarding process so that, so that
it's easier to do business together.
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:So that's what
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:Upendra Varma: essentially you have
a talent partner as a customer.
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:So naturally they end up sort of, you
know, bringing all of this, when you,
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:when you sort of, when you manage
managers to your platform as well.
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:Right.
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:And the reverse also works.
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:Matt Ford: Yeah.
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:And then it's just an amazing
amount of word of mouth.
251
:Like when we, when we're, you
know, now that we're successful in
252
:Austin, Texas, like the people who
all run venues in Austin, like.
253
:Know each other really well and
they're like Hey, you should use Prism.
254
:We use Prism.
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:It's like massively helpful.
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:And at first, sometimes
they were, they were caught.
257
:And they're like, Oh, they
saw it as an advantage.
258
:They're like, Oh, we, we want to, we
don't, I don't know if we want to tell
259
:anyone about Prism because we want
it for ourselves, but over time folks
260
:realize that the more people use it,
the better the system gets and yeah.
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:Upendra Varma: And that
makes a lot of sense.
262
:Let's just talk about
the sales cycle here.
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:Right?
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:So, so when somebody starts
discovering you, what does it take
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:for you to sort of close that 50,
000 deal that you talked about?
266
:Matt Ford: Yeah, I mean, um, once again,
our scatterplot is like very diverse.
267
:Um, but you know, if we cut through
it, it averages about 45 days and it's
268
:exactly what you think you would like.
269
:The typical small deal closes in 30 days.
270
:The typical big deal
might close in 90 days.
271
:But then there's examples
of bull flip flopping.
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:So, um, you know, like, yeah, once
again, the, the mean of the mean cutting
273
:through the noise is smaller deals
take quicker, larger deals take longer.
274
:Um, but it, but we do have a lot
of like deviation in our mean.
275
:Upendra Varma: And then what happens
during the sales process as such, right?
276
:So what exactly are you trying
to sort of, how exactly are you
277
:showcasing the value, right?
278
:Is your customer switching from sort
of Excel's and, you know, Google docs
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:to sort of your platform or do you
have any competitor out there that you
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:want them to switch, pitch from it?
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:What, what exactly happens?
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:How do you convince them?
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:Matt Ford: Yeah.
284
:Re recently I, I finally hired like
professional sales and, um, you eyeopening
285
:experience for me because I think, you
know, I, I, I think the biggest thing
286
:that he's instilled, his name is Dustin.
287
:Dustin Duvonage, he's instilled, um,
like this idea of price validation,
288
:um, in, in our sales reps and like
really kind of making a business use
289
:case around like, Hey, like, you're,
you have a workflow right now that is.
290
:the core flow of your business and
it takes a certain amount of hours to
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:do it the way that you're doing it.
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:And, um, to generate a certain
amount of output and what could you,
293
:how much would it be worth if you
dramatically reduce the number of
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:hours and dramatically simultaneously
dramatically increase the throughput.
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:Um, and, and then, you know, backing
into price based off of that and.
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:Um, you know, at first it was
hard to get Prism sold for 1,
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:000 a year or 3, 000 a year.
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:And, um, maybe that was the fact
that we just were extremely early.
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:Um, but I think, you know, we, we, we
didn't do the best job of validating
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:like why a price really makes sense.
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:But, you know, to start getting like
30, 40, 000 contracts, one way we
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:started talking about it is like,
all right, look, like if you don't
303
:spend 30, 000 in Prism, like let's
say you go and hire someone for 30K.
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:Like what can, what realistically can
one 30 K a year employee do for you?
305
:Um, what is the value you're
going to get out of prism?
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:Um, like, do you care
about your profitability?
307
:Do you care about getting time back?
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:So it is a more sophisticated sales
pitch that we've developed over time
309
:and it works, it works really well.
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:Yeah.
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:And I didn't quite believe it at first.
312
:I was like very much just like build
the best product and they will come.
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:And I think that's true
to a certain extent.
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:Um, but people also won't pay you
your value unless you ask for it.
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:Upendra Varma: All right, man.
316
:So let's, let's go back
to:
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:During this first couple of years, right?
318
:So just talk about how you got
those first 10 odd customers.
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:Matt Ford: Yeah,::
320
:eye, but, uh, yeah, so, uh, we, we
had a, we had a flagship customer
321
:we were building for in:
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:And it was important for me to
just get a few others in, um,
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:like one was absolutely committed.
324
:And I had probably five that were
like weighing in on specific things.
325
:And I was meeting with them consistently.
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:And that was
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:Upendra Varma: did you
knew them basically?
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:How did you knew
329
:Matt Ford: Is that, well, I, uh,
cause I was booking shows in Austin.
330
:So I had built up a network of
venue owners and just found the
331
:most kind of tech savvy one.
332
:Um, you know, for me having five was
great, but having one that was like, I
333
:am, I'm going to push my team through
jumping on here before it's ready.
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:Um, I'm going to push you to get
it ready to have my team jump on.
335
:But then when it's like good enough, I'm
going to, I'm going to like, You know,
336
:maybe swallow some grief from my team
of them being slightly more inefficient
337
:at first trusting that you'll be able
to adapt and make them more efficient.
338
:Um, that's always been
extremely useful for us.
339
:Um, and that like, you know,
White House customer that's
340
:willing to, uh, endure some pain.
341
:And we've used that in other
customer segments now as well.
342
:We've had, we, I would say we have
about five or six unique customer
343
:segments and, and each one I can
point to like an original White House
344
:customer in those situations that.
345
:Just wanted it so bad that they
were willing to go through the pain
346
:management of switching and, and
having something that was nascent.
347
:Um, and I think the art of that is
just really good communication and, and
348
:being clear, like, hey, and, and then
just following through, like, talk,
349
:having real talk with the engineering
team and saying, hey, like, you know,
350
:we really have to rapidly develop with
these folks, like, we have to find
351
:a way to get them quick solutions.
352
:Like, they're, they're taking
a leap of faith with us.
353
:Um, we have to, we have to just,
we can't leave them hanging
354
:and say, Oh, you know, you,
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:Upendra Varma: yeah, Matt's
one question here, right?
356
:So when did that transition happen?
357
:Right.
358
:And like, for example, when did it
go from you founder led sales to your
359
:team, sort of closing that deals.
360
:So like when you were, when
you were doing that, right.
361
:So what channels would really be, what
channels have worked for you, right.
362
:So what was that first marketing channel
that was, that sort of brought you more
363
:leads and that, that you were able to
close without your own, without you
364
:not having to use your own network.
365
:Matt Ford: the first, the
first 20 deals was me.
366
:I closed personally and it was me
going to conferences and relationships.
367
:Yeah.
368
:Upendra Varma: that 20, right?
369
:From between 20 to 50, what's that?
370
:Matt Ford: Yeah.
371
:Um, you know, then I'd say we started
developing SEO and SEM and just showing
372
:up on search engine marketing and that's
never been a silver bullet for us, but
373
:it's consistently high quality leads.
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:Um, and that, and.
375
:And then I just, and then it was, I mean,
for a long time, we've, we it's our, I
376
:wouldn't claim that we've done anything.
377
:Inventive around getting
ourselves out there.
378
:It's just hiring good reps that are
showing up at the conferences and building
379
:relationships and, and then, you know,
creating word of mouth from the product.
380
:And then it's just kind of snowball.
381
:Yeah.
382
:It's been a overnight success
that took eight years or not
383
:eight, but like six at this point.
384
:Yeah.
385
:Upendra Varma: So Madeline, talk
about your team today, right?
386
:So how many folks do you have on
your team and what do they do?
387
:Matt Ford: Uh, 26 primarily, you know, 17
in product and engineering, uh, six in.
388
:Um, sales and go to market
and then three in customer
389
:Upendra Varma: So were you always
building the product in house or did you
390
:ever sort of outsource it or all this?
391
:And what, what was the reason there?
392
:Why, why didn't you
sort of explore sort of,
393
:Matt Ford: Well, we are nothing but
a pro, like, like you could boil
394
:down like, yeah, we have a good
team, but it's the good team is
395
:only there because of the products.
396
:Um, and it's, it's the core of what we do.
397
:Like, I think everyone at the company
works on the product, whether you're in
398
:customer support and, or you're in sales
and you're getting new people to use it.
399
:Um, so, and, and the most direct thing you
can do to work on the product is build it.
400
:And, uh, I mean, we take.
401
:Every engineering decision, extremely
seriously from architecture to
402
:code review to QA, um, and, uh,
like you can't, I never felt like
403
:I could outsource my secret sauce.
404
:Like, it's just, it's not even been
an option for me, like not even close
405
:quality over quantity, you know,
cause we're, we're a tech company.
406
:We're not like to outsource my
product, I think would just be
407
:like, I like, that would be a
house of cards in my perspective.
408
:It's like.
409
:I'm like brewing beer, but I,
I don't know how to make beer.
410
:You know,
411
:Upendra Varma: Yeah.
412
:That's that, that makes a lot of sense.
413
:And how much money have you
raised in external funding so far?
414
:Matt Ford: we just closed
5 million series B.
415
:Um, and that puts us up to
like 15 million in total.
416
:Upendra Varma: All right.
417
:So like one last question here, right?
418
:What's, what's the vision here, right?
419
:Where do you see your company going like
five, five, six years down the line?
420
:Right.
421
:What's the big vision here?
422
:Matt Ford: Um, I think I'm more so
like a two to three year type person
423
:right now and, and two to three years.
424
:The main, the main vision of Prism is
to be, is to create a platform shift in
425
:the live music industry such that like,
it's not like you're using something
426
:like Prism to run your business.
427
:And I think we're about three
years away from doing that.
428
:And like it just being so
aggressively good that.
429
:You know, an overwhelming
percent of the industry is using
430
:Prism as an industry standard.
431
:Um, and it's a fully robust network system
and payments are flowing through Prism.
432
:Um, so I think that's like mission
one and there's a lot of unknowns.
433
:It's hard to see around that corner.
434
:Like I'm kind of, I'm
really got my head down.
435
:Like, I know that that could be a
launch pad for many other products and.
436
:And acquisitions and all that.
437
:Um, I don't fully know what's
on the other side of this
438
:horizon that we're approaching.
439
:Um, but that's, that's what I see in
the next three years happening with us.
440
:Um, I gotta, you know, is that, is
that 50 million recurring revenue?
441
:Is that 80 million?
442
:Is that, you know, 120,
um, you know, how, how
443
:Upendra Varma: you've got to
give me a number here, right?
444
:So
445
:Matt Ford: I don't, I
don't fully know yet.
446
:I don't fully know yet.
447
:I mean, uh, the, we, we will find out.
448
:I mean, I think it has potential to
be, uh, without evolving the product.
449
:I think it has potential to be
in the hundreds of millions.
450
:Um, but you know, I also like, you know,
we'll see, we'll see how many professional
451
:venue organizers are out there.
452
:I've got, I've got numbers on a
spreadsheet, but it's, that's,
453
:that's numbers on a spreadsheet.
454
:Let's, let's see what actually happens.
455
:Upendra Varma: Yeah.
456
:All right, Matt.
457
:Thanks for taking the time to talk to me.
458
:Hope you scale Prism to
much, much greater heights.
459
:Matt Ford: Thank you.
460
:Thank you.
461
:God willing.
462
:Appreciate it.