They Build SaaS Products for Non-Technical Founders Under $10K. What’s Their Secret Sauce?

Upendra Varma: 00:00:00

Hello everyone. Welcome to the B2B SaaS podcast. I'm your host Upendra Verma and today we have Ayush Singh with us. Ayush here is the founder and CEO of a company called Build. That's B Y L double D. Hey Ayush, welcome to the show.

Ayush Singhvi: 00:00:12

Thanks for having me, Vipindra.

Upendra Varma: 00:00:13

All right, so let's just try to understand, right? What Build does and how you help, you know, companies out there.

Ayush Singhvi: 00:00:20

Sure, man. So, uh, in a nutshell, Build exists to help non technical founders Launch tech businesses, right? So we're a combination of a startup studio and a dev shop and we work with generally like, you know, people who've been in industry or domain experts, um, who've seen some kind of opportunity in their market and they want to build technology to address that opportunity. So that that's kind of, uh, Sorry, typical, you know, target audience. Um, and by domain experts, I mean, anybody who's like experiencing a problem, it doesn't necessarily mean like, you know, somebody who's been in an industry for like 20 years.

Upendra Varma: 00:00:59

Got it. Right. And just help me write the way you engage with these founders. So at which stage do you come in and like what sort of services you provide and how does that work typically for your typical, you know, customer?

Ayush Singhvi: 00:01:13

Yeah, absolutely. So we work with them at a very early stage, right? So these are typically founders who just have an idea. Um, they haven't, uh, sometimes they've done some validation of it. Sometimes they haven't done validation either. Uh, and. What tends to happen is that founders have this like grand vision of like, you know, what they want the product to do. Um, we help them kind of understand, uh, you know, the core problem that they're trying to solve, narrow down that vision into like phases that we can build out on, and then try and build out like the first version of the product, bring it in front of customers, try to get revenue as fast as possible, and then use that feedback from those customers to like drive further product development. Right. So it's very, very Revity focused, uh, customer centric approach to product development.

Upendra Varma: 00:02:05

So just help me get a sense about the customers you work with today. Right. So, so just help us understand, right? So how many sort of customers do you work with as of today?

Ayush Singhvi: 00:02:15

Yeah, we have, uh, I think we have about like about 20 ish active projects right now. Um, out of which, uh, you know, six or seven founders have been with us long term already. Right. So these are founders that have been working with us for over a year. Because when they've built the product, they've gone to customers. Um, they've found like that, uh, you know, customers resonated with what they're building and then they were able to like kind of scale up and like keep developing and so on. Right. So that, that happens to, uh, you know, significant chunk of the companies that we work with. Um, the other founders are newer. So we're still building out the products we're going to be launching and ideally we're going to move them into that long term fun, uh, you know, long term, uh, kind of segment as well.

Upendra Varma: 00:02:59

Got it. Right. So on your LinkedIn and even on your website, I see this, right? So you help build MVPs for less than 10, 000, right? So that's like, how does that even work? Right. So how can you build an MVP under 10, 000? Like, and, and like, just help us understand, right. How you're able to do that. So it typically takes a way lot to, you know, launch that first version of Even if you need like two to three developers for, let's say six months, it's going to cost a whole lot of lot more than that. Right. So how do you do that? And like, what's your model there?

Ayush Singhvi: 00:03:28

Yeah, absolutely. So what we've done is it's a combination of two things. So one, we've automated the, uh, software development process. We have our own IP. That writes code for us. Um, and this is like, you know, pre chat GPT and all of those. So this is something that we've been building for more than four years now. And the idea here is that the system takes in a certain number of inputs, uh, you know, understand, let's say, if you're building a SaaS product, um, you need subscriptions, you need, like, if it's a multi tenant system, whatever, it understands that, and then it automatically writes the code for the infrastructure for all of these, like, common features, right? So, You know, admin management, subscription payments, multi tenancy, like I mentioned. So it does all of that. And then what ends up happening is that we only spend engineering time on the things that are unique to the business. So that typically takes about a month, month and a half, right? So because all of the other things already done, and that's why we're able to do it at that price point and like that quickly. Yeah,

Upendra Varma: 00:04:32

That makes a lot of sense. And, uh, just help us understand your, you know, deal size, right? So typically when you sort of talk to a non technical founder, right. So when they wants to build an MPP, right. So what's the average, you know, sort of deal size they're looking at to get that basic product of product version running.

Ayush Singhvi: 00:04:47

it depends. Um, it really depends on the industry and the complexity of the product. Um, we try to do it in like, you know, 15k, right? The idea is that we want to do it in small enough amount that a bootstrap founder can afford it and then go to market as fast as possible. So we do it, of course, automating things. And we also like try and narrow down the scope so that we're focused on the core problem instead of all these like bells and whistles when we're building out version one.

Upendra Varma: 00:05:18

And then how long does it typically take? I know there's going to be a spectrum and it's going to depend upon the complexity of it, but just trying to get some vague sense of, you know, how, how long it typically takes for you

Ayush Singhvi: 00:05:26

Yeah. So on, again, the goal is to do it between one to two months, right? So the idea is that if we're charging, you know, like 10 to 15 K, The idea is that we would launch it within like one to two months, um, and get it out to market as fast as possible.

Upendra Varma: 00:05:43

and just during this one or two months, right? So just help us understand. So how do you price your service? Yeah. Is it on a developer R basis or is it entirely based on the complexity of project that, how does that work? If I'm a.

Ayush Singhvi: 00:05:55

Uh, it's, it's on a,

Upendra Varma: 00:05:57

coming to you

Ayush Singhvi: 00:05:58

yeah, we typically do it on a monthly basis, depending on the, the size of the team we will need and how many months it'll take to, to do it. Right. So we have a fixed amount.

Upendra Varma: 00:06:08

and just, just, uh, you know, help us close this example that you've picked. Right. So typically if somebody is paying you 15, 000 to get an MVP ready in two months, right. So how many developers are you typically going to put to put full time to work on this project? Right.

Ayush Singhvi: 00:06:20

Yeah. About, uh, two and a half engineers. So it's a combination of like two and a half engineers. Yeah. There'll be a product manager, there'll be a UI UX designer, there'll be a QA person, there'll be a project manager, like it's the entire product team, you know, the team will have access to the senior members of the team, of course, for like technical oversight and bug fixes and help and all of that. So it's the entire product ecosystem that we're providing for a certain amount, like, you know, for the project.

Upendra Varma: 00:06:48

Makes a lot of sense. Right. So just, uh, let's, let's move on to your growth story and how you would, how, how it all started for you. Right. So when have you started the business and like, what's the story there? Yeah.

Ayush Singhvi: 00:06:58

Sure. Yeah, I started it in February 2020. Um, so that's when I kind of left my full time role and started working on this on build full time. Um, and yeah, I mean, we started with like one team member at that point and we're a team of like 55 people now. So it's grown quite a bit over the past four years. Um, Yeah, I mean, uh, you know, first project we got was a friend, uh, was like, it wasn't, it wasn't even profitable. It was just a friend who wanted to kind of build something. And we thought, all right, let's try it out and see if it works. And like, if the IP that we've built, if that works and all of those things, so that that's how we did version

Upendra Varma: 00:07:39

and today you, you have like 20 active, you know, companies or projects going on. Right. And how many have you worked overall over the past, you know, three, four years?

Ayush Singhvi: 00:07:48

Oh, I don't know. Uh, more than 50, 50, 60 ish, I guess. Uh, I, I don't know off the top of

Upendra Varma: 00:07:57

That makes a lot of sense. Right. So, so I'm just, uh, sort of, uh, trying to understand your funnel today. Right. So just, just, uh, help us understand. Right. So where are you finding all of these clients? Right. So how do they discover you? Right. What, what marketing are you doing for your own self to sort of find these new customers?

Ayush Singhvi: 00:08:12

Yeah. A lot of it is a referral based, right? So client, you know, like our, the founders we work with, they're happy. They refer us to other founders in their network and we end up working with them. Right. So that, that's typically how it, uh, how the majority of Okay. Um, we have, you know, uh, a lot of VCs and angel investors are also very happy with their work because we work with founders and then they've gone and raised money from those VCs. And those VCs then like send their portfolio companies to us, right, for product development. So that, that also has happened quite a few times. So it's a combination of those things, but it's like, I would say 90 percent inbound, 90, 90 percent

Upendra Varma: 00:08:53

And what, what, what are you doing apart from obvious, you know, inbound traffic, right? That, that, that's driving you, you know, new leads, anything particularly that you're sort of spending your

Ayush Singhvi: 00:09:02

we're, we're experiment, we're experimenting on something. So there's, uh, email outreaches going on, um, to establish kind of partnerships with like people in the industry that, uh, you know, have a strong startup community. Um, there's that we tried some ads and like newsletters and podcasts with like some, some degrees of success. So, uh, it's worked out to an extent, um, you know, in those cases and yeah, but those are like the main things we're not doing any like, uh, you know, Google search ads or anything like that.

Upendra Varma: 00:09:39

Yeah. I asked you this specifically because like, I mean, if, if somebody comes to you, right. And if they're successful, if you're successful in building them a product, there's a very good chance they're going to turn out, right. Because they're going to raise a ton of money from VCs. And then they will, they might even build an in house team. Right. So, so like there's going to be a lot of churn given the nature of this business. Right. So, uh, I'm assuming you need some sort of steady, you know, income steady leads. That needs to come to you. But so,

Ayush Singhvi: 00:10:03

Not, not really actually. So, um, not really because even if they raise a ton of money, um, what tends to happen is that they're very happy with what we're doing. So they will scale up the team that we have internally. Right. Um, and they're not like, I would say maybe one founder in like the last four years has decided to make his own team, uh,

Upendra Varma: 00:10:30

So that, that, that sounds wonderful. Can you just quantify this for us? Right? So for example, you've told me that you've worked with around 50 SAS companies or so far over your, over your journey so far, right? So how many of them, you know, have managed to raise, uh, you know, next round of funding and how many of them still stick with you, right? Just, just give some approximate numbers to understand the business.

Ayush Singhvi: 00:10:49

I mean, it's like this, right? Like the founders that are able to generate traction and revenue have all of them have decided to continue to working with us. I think the only, only exception is that is one founder. And that's for like a completely different reason. They needed to build an in house team because they were doing like deep technology stuff, right? Yeah, so that's it. And then, like, I would yeah, all of them have, we have like a very, very, very low churn rate when founders are able to like, get the product validated in the market.

Upendra Varma: 00:11:26

so I think the risk here is in terms of the project itself getting validated out there as opposed

Ayush Singhvi: 00:11:31

Yeah, exactly. It's about exactly. It's about whether there's a demand for the product or not,

Upendra Varma: 00:11:36

and just can you give us give us some sense here? It's out of the 20 projects that you're working on, right? So how many of them actually were with you like, you know, say a year before today?

Ayush Singhvi: 00:11:45

Yeah, but I would say seven or eight of them.

Upendra Varma: 00:11:47

Okay, that makes a lot of sense Yeah, so Just talk about your, your margins here, right? So how are you, I mean, these numbers look still there. So if you can build me a SaaS product around 10, 15, 000 in two to three months, right? Look, how are you able to do that? Right? What's your secret sauce here? Given developers are going to cost you so much typically, right? So what's, what's the

Ayush Singhvi: 00:12:06

like I mentioned, it's the automation and the IP that we've built, right? We've invested a lot of money and time and engineering hours into building our IP, building the modules that we use to do all of this. And that's where we're able to kind of do this at the price point that we offer it at. Right. And, um, The idea is to keep bringing that cost down because the, the principle, like the, the founding principle of the company is to democratize like access to software entrepreneurship, right? Make it easy for non technical founders to, to build and launch companies.

Upendra Varma: 00:12:40

Right. So, uh, just one question here, right? So in terms of, uh, the specialization you're offering, right? So are you saying that you only specifically build SaaS companies or because like I could see there are tons of, you know, dev shops out there, right? So my question is what differentiates you from them? Are you specifically focusing on one aspect of it? Are you saying, Hey, we just build SaaS products because we are experts in doing that. We've built like 30, 40 of them. Like what's your, what's, what sort of. Positioning are you taking when you go out there? Because there are like tons of dev shops out there, especially from countries like India and all of it. Right. So, so what's that unique positioning that you're taking here?

Ayush Singhvi: 00:13:15

Yeah, sure. So we work with, uh, non technical founders and domain experts to build, software businesses, right. So our combination, like I said, it's a combination of a startup studio and a dev shop. So we, uh, we're helping these founders basically refine their ideas. And then go to market with it. Right. So that's our, that's the segment that we focus on. It's not that we work on only SAS. We work on All kinds of software products. So we've worked on, you know, consumer products as well, built like dating apps. We've built, uh, kind of marketplace products as well. We've built SAS as well. We've built like data analytics platforms as well. Like there's no, uh, restriction there. It's just that we focus on working with founders.

Upendra Varma: 00:14:01

Okay. So, and there is no specific focus that you typically work with, right? So,

Ayush Singhvi: 00:14:05

No, um, yeah, no, no specific, uh, kind of industry or domain that we, we

Upendra Varma: 00:14:11

okay. So can you maybe just help us understand within your portfolio today? Right. So where do these non technical founders typically seem to come from? Right. Are they building B2B products? Are they, are they coming from, you know, you know, industries like healthcare? Like just, just help us understand your portfolio today.

Ayush Singhvi: 00:14:27

Yeah, it's a mix. It's a mix. Uh, we have some healthcare products that we're working on. We have some construction products that we're working on. We're working with an architecture, like architect, uh, that's building a, like an automation tool for his industry. Um, it's really a

Upendra Varma: 00:14:44

yeah, so it's, it's, uh, so I'm, I'm just asking you this, right? Because you're saying most of your in most of the leads that you're getting are inbound and primarily via referrals, right? So there's got to be a, there's got to be a community around that, right? So, I mean, these people have to know each other, otherwise there's no way they're coming to you, right? So they have to be connected somehow. So I'm just trying to understand that connection. Is it an industry? Is it, you know, something else? Like, what's that connection?

Ayush Singhvi: 00:15:06

Uh, no, no connection as such in that sense, right? So it's not that they all know each other. It's just that founders we worked with in the past. are recommending us to different founders that they individually know, So it's kind of the network of like different founders we've worked in with in the past, right? Uh, there's no like singular community that they're coming from.

Upendra Varma: 00:15:30

Okay. And if you want to sort of, you know, take control of that whole process of lead generation, right? So where would you start today? Right? So you've got to know who, who primarily benefits the most out of your service today, right? So where do you start, right? So would you focus on any particular industry or something else based on your portfolio?

Ayush Singhvi: 00:15:47

Yeah. We're working with, uh, again, we're working with a lot of investors and like, uh, it's a combination, right? So we're doing, um, Podcasts and newsletters that talk about entrepreneurship. So that's one avenue of it. Relationships with the VCs and invest like angels is another avenue of it. Relationships with the founders so that they refer us to others is another avenue of it. So we're exploring all of these in parallel.

Upendra Varma: 00:16:11

So, uh, when you work with these non tech founders, right, is there any technical person on that team? Typically,

Ayush Singhvi: 00:16:18

Um, sometimes there is, sometimes there isn't,

Upendra Varma: 00:16:20

because what I've seen, right, uh, especially within the SaaS industry is that, uh, people who are starting a SaaS they're very reluctant to sort of, you know, work with this, you know, agencies or dev shops, or even all consultancies, because they believe that the whole software is their own. Software is the key part of their product. That's what they're trying to sell, right? So how have you been overcoming those objections if you've encountered any so far?

Ayush Singhvi: 00:16:43

Uh, no objections as such, right? I mean, software is definitely a key part of, of their business, but it's not what the founder should be spending time on, right? The founder needs to be going out there, like focusing on sales and building relationships and getting first customers. Building software is easy, right? It's like understanding the business that's, that's difficult.

Upendra Varma: 00:17:05

Yeah. But like in, in SaaS world, at least it's, it's almost 90, 95 percent have some technical guy, you know, sort of associated when you're starting up when you're just getting started. Right. So

Ayush Singhvi: 00:17:13

Oh, I don't think so. I don't think that's accurate. Uh, I think. A lot of, uh, kind of early stage founders try and look for a CTO. Um, but that doesn't typically work out because most engineers who are competent don't want to work at a company that has no validation and no traction and no product or any of that. Right. So that typically doesn't work. And then the founders end up working with, uh, you know, Sometimes dev shops, sometimes, uh, like us, sometimes they do manage to found a, find a co founder, but that, that is very rare. And they have to show a lot of kind of validation to be able to do that. Right. So they either have to invest a lot of money onto the company and pay a decent salary for a technical co founder, or they have to. show that the business is already validated or they have to show like history of entrepreneurship that they've built and sold companies in the past, right? So it's typically difficult for like first time founders to get a, you know, find a CTO to work with.

Upendra Varma: 00:18:16

makes a lot of sense. Uh, and like, have you raised any external funding so far to build your company or it's completely bootstrap?

Ayush Singhvi: 00:18:23

Yeah.

Upendra Varma: 00:18:23

But can you guys give us a sense of, you know, the approximate revenue that you're doing overall as a company today?

Ayush Singhvi: 00:18:29

Um, no, I

Upendra Varma: 00:18:31

revenues totally like a broad range totally works. Right. So in

Ayush Singhvi: 00:18:34

We're, we're, I mean, we're under a million dollars right now.

Upendra Varma: 00:18:39

Yeah, that, that, that, that makes a lot of sense, right? Yeah, thanks, Ayush. Thanks for taking the time to talk to me. Hope you scale your company to much, much greater heights.

Ayush Singhvi: 00:18:47

Cheers, man. Thank you for having me