They Build SaaS Products for Non-Technical Founders Under $10K. What’s Their Secret Sauce?

Hello everyone.

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Welcome to the B2B SaaS podcast.

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I'm your host Upendra Verma and

today we have Ayush Singh with us.

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Ayush here is the founder and

CEO of a company called Build.

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That's B Y L double D.

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Hey Ayush, welcome to the show.

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Ayush Singhvi: Thanks

for having me, Vipindra.

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Upendra Varma: All right, so let's

just try to understand, right?

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What Build does and how you help,

you know, companies out there.

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Ayush Singhvi: Sure, man.

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So, uh, in a nutshell, Build exists

to help non technical founders

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Launch tech businesses, right?

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So we're a combination of a startup

studio and a dev shop and we work with

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generally like, you know, people who've

been in industry or domain experts, um,

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who've seen some kind of opportunity

in their market and they want to build

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technology to address that opportunity.

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So that that's kind of, uh, Sorry,

typical, you know, target audience.

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Um, and by domain experts, I mean,

anybody who's like experiencing a

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problem, it doesn't necessarily mean

like, you know, somebody who's been

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in an industry for like 20 years.

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Upendra Varma: Got it.

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Right.

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And just help me write the way

you engage with these founders.

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So at which stage do you come in and

like what sort of services you provide

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and how does that work typically for

your typical, you know, customer?

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Ayush Singhvi: Yeah, absolutely.

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So we work with them at a

very early stage, right?

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So these are typically

founders who just have an idea.

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Um, they haven't, uh, sometimes

they've done some validation of it.

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Sometimes they haven't

done validation either.

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Uh, and.

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What tends to happen is that founders

have this like grand vision of like, you

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know, what they want the product to do.

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Um, we help them kind of understand, uh,

you know, the core problem that they're

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trying to solve, narrow down that vision

into like phases that we can build out

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on, and then try and build out like

the first version of the product, bring

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it in front of customers, try to get

revenue as fast as possible, and then

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use that feedback from those customers to

like drive further product development.

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Right.

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So it's very, very Revity

focused, uh, customer centric

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approach to product development.

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Upendra Varma: So just help me get a sense

about the customers you work with today.

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Right.

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So, so just help us understand, right?

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So how many sort of customers

do you work with as of today?

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Ayush Singhvi: Yeah, we have, uh,

I think we have about like about

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20 ish active projects right now.

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Um, out of which, uh, you know,

six or seven founders have

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been with us long term already.

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Right.

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So these are founders that have been

working with us for over a year.

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Because when they've built the

product, they've gone to customers.

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Um, they've found like that, uh,

you know, customers resonated with

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what they're building and then they

were able to like kind of scale up

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and like keep developing and so on.

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Right.

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So that, that happens to, uh,

you know, significant chunk of

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the companies that we work with.

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Um, the other founders are newer.

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So we're still building out the

products we're going to be launching

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and ideally we're going to move them

into that long term fun, uh, you know,

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long term, uh, kind of segment as well.

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Upendra Varma: Got it.

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Right.

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So on your LinkedIn and even on

your website, I see this, right?

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So you help build MVPs for

less than 10, 000, right?

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So that's like, how does that even work?

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Right.

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So how can you build an MVP under 10, 000?

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Like, and, and like, just

help us understand, right.

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How you're able to do that.

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So it typically takes a way lot to, you

know, launch that first version of Even

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if you need like two to three developers

for, let's say six months, it's going to

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cost a whole lot of lot more than that.

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Right.

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So how do you do that?

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And like, what's your model there?

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Ayush Singhvi: Yeah, absolutely.

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So what we've done is it's

a combination of two things.

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So one, we've automated the, uh,

software development process.

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We have our own IP.

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That writes code for us.

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Um, and this is like, you know,

pre chat GPT and all of those.

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So this is something that we've been

building for more than four years now.

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And the idea here is that the system

takes in a certain number of inputs,

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uh, you know, understand, let's say,

if you're building a SaaS product,

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um, you need subscriptions, you need,

like, if it's a multi tenant system,

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whatever, it understands that, and

then it automatically writes the code

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for the infrastructure for all of

these, like, common features, right?

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So, You know, admin management,

subscription payments, multi

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tenancy, like I mentioned.

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So it does all of that.

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And then what ends up happening is that

we only spend engineering time on the

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things that are unique to the business.

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So that typically takes about a

month, month and a half, right?

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So because all of the other things already

done, and that's why we're able to do it

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at that price point and like that quickly.

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Yeah,

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Upendra Varma: That makes a lot of sense.

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And, uh, just help us understand

your, you know, deal size, right?

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So typically when you sort of talk

to a non technical founder, right.

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So when they wants to build an MPP, right.

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So what's the average, you know, sort of

deal size they're looking at to get that

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basic product of product version running.

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Ayush Singhvi: it depends.

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Um, it really depends on the industry

and the complexity of the product.

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Um, we try to do it in

like, you know, 15k, right?

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The idea is that we want to do it in

small enough amount that a bootstrap

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founder can afford it and then

go to market as fast as possible.

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So we do it, of course, automating things.

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And we also like try and narrow

down the scope so that we're focused

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on the core problem instead of all

these like bells and whistles when

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we're building out version one.

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Upendra Varma: And then how

long does it typically take?

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I know there's going to be a spectrum

and it's going to depend upon the

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complexity of it, but just trying to

get some vague sense of, you know, how,

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how long it typically takes for you

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Ayush Singhvi: Yeah.

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So on, again, the goal is to do it

between one to two months, right?

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So the idea is that if we're charging,

you know, like 10 to 15 K, The idea

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is that we would launch it within

like one to two months, um, and get

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it out to market as fast as possible.

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Upendra Varma: and just during

this one or two months, right?

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So just help us understand.

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So how do you price your service?

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Yeah.

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Is it on a developer R basis or is

it entirely based on the complexity

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of project that, how does that work?

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If I'm a.

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Ayush Singhvi: Uh, it's, it's on a,

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Upendra Varma: coming to you

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Ayush Singhvi: yeah, we typically do it

on a monthly basis, depending on the,

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the size of the team we will need and

how many months it'll take to, to do it.

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Right.

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So we have a fixed amount.

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Upendra Varma: and just, just,

uh, you know, help us close

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this example that you've picked.

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Right.

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So typically if somebody is

paying you 15, 000 to get an

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MVP ready in two months, right.

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So how many developers are you

typically going to put to put

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full time to work on this project?

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Right.

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Ayush Singhvi: Yeah.

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About, uh, two and a half engineers.

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So it's a combination of like

two and a half engineers.

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Yeah.

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There'll be a product manager, there'll

be a UI UX designer, there'll be a QA

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person, there'll be a project manager,

like it's the entire product team,

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you know, the team will have access

to the senior members of the team, of

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course, for like technical oversight

and bug fixes and help and all of that.

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So it's the entire product ecosystem

that we're providing for a certain

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amount, like, you know, for the project.

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Upendra Varma: Makes a lot of sense.

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Right.

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So just, uh, let's, let's move on to

your growth story and how you would,

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how, how it all started for you.

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Right.

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So when have you started the business

and like, what's the story there?

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Yeah.

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Ayush Singhvi: Sure.

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Um, so that's when I kind of left

my full time role and started

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working on this on build full time.

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Um, and yeah, I mean, we started with

like one team member at that point and

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we're a team of like 55 people now.

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So it's grown quite a bit

over the past four years.

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Um, Yeah, I mean, uh, you know, first

project we got was a friend, uh, was like,

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it wasn't, it wasn't even profitable.

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It was just a friend who wanted

to kind of build something.

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And we thought, all right, let's

try it out and see if it works.

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And like, if the IP that we've built,

if that works and all of those things,

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so that that's how we did version

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Upendra Varma: and today you, you

have like 20 active, you know,

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companies or projects going on.

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Right.

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And how many have you worked overall over

the past, you know, three, four years?

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Ayush Singhvi: Oh, I don't know.

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Uh, more than 50, 50, 60 ish, I guess.

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Uh, I, I don't know off the top of

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Upendra Varma: That makes a lot of sense.

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Right.

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So, so I'm just, uh, sort of, uh,

trying to understand your funnel today.

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Right.

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So just, just, uh, help us understand.

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Right.

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So where are you finding

all of these clients?

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Right.

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So how do they discover you?

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Right.

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What, what marketing are you

doing for your own self to sort

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of find these new customers?

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Ayush Singhvi: Yeah.

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A lot of it is a referral based, right?

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So client, you know, like our, the

founders we work with, they're happy.

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They refer us to other founders in their

network and we end up working with them.

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Right.

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So that, that's typically how

it, uh, how the majority of Okay.

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Um, we have, you know, uh, a lot

of VCs and angel investors are also

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very happy with their work because we

work with founders and then they've

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gone and raised money from those VCs.

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And those VCs then like send

their portfolio companies to us,

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right, for product development.

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So that, that also has

happened quite a few times.

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So it's a combination of those

things, but it's like, I would say

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90 percent inbound, 90, 90 percent

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Upendra Varma: And what, what, what

are you doing apart from obvious,

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you know, inbound traffic, right?

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That, that, that's driving you, you

know, new leads, anything particularly

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that you're sort of spending your

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Ayush Singhvi: we're, we're experiment,

we're experimenting on something.

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So there's, uh, email outreaches going

on, um, to establish kind of partnerships

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with like people in the industry that, uh,

you know, have a strong startup community.

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Um, there's that we tried some ads

and like newsletters and podcasts with

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like some, some degrees of success.

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So, uh, it's worked out to an extent,

um, you know, in those cases and yeah,

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but those are like the main things

we're not doing any like, uh, you know,

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Google search ads or anything like that.

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Upendra Varma: Yeah.

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I asked you this specifically

because like, I mean, if, if

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somebody comes to you, right.

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And if they're successful, if

you're successful in building them a

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product, there's a very good chance

they're going to turn out, right.

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Because they're going to

raise a ton of money from VCs.

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And then they will, they might

even build an in house team.

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Right.

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So, so like there's going to be a lot of

churn given the nature of this business.

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Right.

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So, uh, I'm assuming you need some sort

of steady, you know, income steady leads.

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That needs to come to you.

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But so,

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Ayush Singhvi: Not, not really actually.

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So, um, not really because even if

they raise a ton of money, um, what

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tends to happen is that they're

very happy with what we're doing.

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So they will scale up the

team that we have internally.

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Right.

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Um, and they're not like, I

would say maybe one founder in

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like the last four years has

decided to make his own team, uh,

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Upendra Varma: So that,

that, that sounds wonderful.

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Can you just quantify this for us?

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Right?

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So for example, you've told me

that you've worked with around 50

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SAS companies or so far over your,

over your journey so far, right?

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So how many of them, you know, have

managed to raise, uh, you know, next

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round of funding and how many of

them still stick with you, right?

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Just, just give some approximate

numbers to understand the business.

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Ayush Singhvi: I mean,

it's like this, right?

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Like the founders that are able

to generate traction and revenue

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have all of them have decided

to continue to working with us.

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I think the only, only exception

is that is one founder.

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And that's for like a

completely different reason.

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They needed to build an in house

team because they were doing like

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deep technology stuff, right?

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Yeah, so that's it.

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And then, like, I would yeah, all of them

have, we have like a very, very, very low

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churn rate when founders are able to like,

get the product validated in the market.

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Upendra Varma: so I think the risk

here is in terms of the project itself

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getting validated out there as opposed

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Ayush Singhvi: Yeah, exactly.

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It's about exactly.

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It's about whether there's a

demand for the product or not,

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Upendra Varma: and just can you

give us give us some sense here?

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It's out of the 20 projects

that you're working on, right?

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So how many of them actually were with you

like, you know, say a year before today?

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Ayush Singhvi: Yeah, but I would

say seven or eight of them.

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Upendra Varma: Okay, that makes

a lot of sense Yeah, so Just talk

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about your, your margins here, right?

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So how are you, I mean, these

numbers look still there.

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So if you can build me a SaaS

product around 10, 15, 000 in

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two to three months, right?

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Look, how are you able to do that?

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Right?

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What's your secret sauce here?

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Given developers are going to

cost you so much typically, right?

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So what's, what's the

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Ayush Singhvi: like I mentioned,

it's the automation and the

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IP that we've built, right?

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We've invested a lot of money and

time and engineering hours into

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building our IP, building the modules

that we use to do all of this.

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And that's where we're able to

kind of do this at the price

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point that we offer it at.

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Right.

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And, um, The idea is to keep bringing

that cost down because the, the principle,

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like the, the founding principle of the

company is to democratize like access

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to software entrepreneurship, right?

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Make it easy for non technical founders

to, to build and launch companies.

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Upendra Varma: Right.

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So, uh, just one question here, right?

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So in terms of, uh, the

specialization you're offering, right?

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So are you saying that you only

specifically build SaaS companies or

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because like I could see there are tons

of, you know, dev shops out there, right?

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So my question is what

differentiates you from them?

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Are you specifically

focusing on one aspect of it?

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Are you saying, Hey, we just

build SaaS products because

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we are experts in doing that.

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We've built like 30, 40 of them.

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Like what's your, what's, what sort of.

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Positioning are you taking

when you go out there?

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Because there are like tons of dev

shops out there, especially from

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countries like India and all of it.

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Right.

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So, so what's that unique

positioning that you're taking here?

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Ayush Singhvi: Yeah, sure.

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So we work with, uh, non technical

founders and domain experts to

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build, software businesses, right.

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So our combination, like I

said, it's a combination of a

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startup studio and a dev shop.

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So we, uh, we're helping these

founders basically refine their ideas.

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And then go to market with it.

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Right.

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So that's our, that's the

segment that we focus on.

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It's not that we work on only SAS.

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We work on All kinds of software products.

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So we've worked on, you know, consumer

products as well, built like dating apps.

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We've built, uh, kind of

marketplace products as well.

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We've built SAS as well.

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We've built like data

analytics platforms as well.

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Like there's no, uh, restriction there.

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It's just that we focus

on working with founders.

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Upendra Varma: Okay.

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So, and there is no specific focus

that you typically work with, right?

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So,

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Ayush Singhvi: No, um, yeah,

no, no specific, uh, kind of

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industry or domain that we, we

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Upendra Varma: okay.

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So can you maybe just help us

understand within your portfolio today?

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Right.

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So where do these non technical

founders typically seem to come from?

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Right.

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Are they building B2B products?

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Are they, are they coming from, you know,

you know, industries like healthcare?

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Like just, just help us

understand your portfolio today.

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Ayush Singhvi: Yeah, it's a mix.

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It's a mix.

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Uh, we have some healthcare

products that we're working on.

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We have some construction

products that we're working on.

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We're working with an architecture, like

architect, uh, that's building a, like

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an automation tool for his industry.

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Um, it's really a

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Upendra Varma: yeah, so it's, it's, uh,

so I'm, I'm just asking you this, right?

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Because you're saying most of

your in most of the leads that

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you're getting are inbound and

primarily via referrals, right?

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So there's got to be a, there's got

to be a community around that, right?

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So, I mean, these people have to

know each other, otherwise there's

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no way they're coming to you, right?

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So they have to be connected somehow.

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So I'm just trying to

understand that connection.

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Is it an industry?

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Is it, you know, something else?

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Like, what's that connection?

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Ayush Singhvi: Uh, no, no connection

as such in that sense, right?

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So it's not that they all know each other.

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It's just that founders we

worked with in the past.

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are recommending us to different founders

that they individually know, So it's kind

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of the network of like different founders

we've worked in with in the past, right?

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Uh, there's no like singular

community that they're coming from.

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Upendra Varma: Okay.

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And if you want to sort of, you

know, take control of that whole

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process of lead generation, right?

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So where would you start today?

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Right?

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So you've got to know who, who

primarily benefits the most out

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of your service today, right?

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So where do you start, right?

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So would you focus on any

particular industry or something

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else based on your portfolio?

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Ayush Singhvi: Yeah.

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We're working with, uh, again, we're

working with a lot of investors and

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like, uh, it's a combination, right?

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So we're doing, um, Podcasts

and newsletters that talk

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about entrepreneurship.

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So that's one avenue of it.

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Relationships with the VCs and invest

like angels is another avenue of it.

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Relationships with the founders

so that they refer us to

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others is another avenue of it.

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So we're exploring all

of these in parallel.

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Upendra Varma: So, uh, when you work

with these non tech founders, right, is

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there any technical person on that team?

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Typically,

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Ayush Singhvi: Um, sometimes

there is, sometimes there isn't,

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Upendra Varma: because what I've seen,

right, uh, especially within the SaaS

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industry is that, uh, people who are

starting a SaaS they're very reluctant

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to sort of, you know, work with this,

you know, agencies or dev shops, or even

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all consultancies, because they believe

that the whole software is their own.

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Software is the key part of their product.

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That's what they're trying to sell, right?

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So how have you been overcoming

those objections if you've

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encountered any so far?

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Ayush Singhvi: Uh, no

objections as such, right?

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I mean, software is definitely a

key part of, of their business,

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but it's not what the founder

should be spending time on, right?

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The founder needs to be going out there,

like focusing on sales and building

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relationships and getting first customers.

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Building software is easy, right?

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It's like understanding the

business that's, that's difficult.

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Upendra Varma: Yeah.

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But like in, in SaaS world, at least

it's, it's almost 90, 95 percent have

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some technical guy, you know, sort

of associated when you're starting

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up when you're just getting started.

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Right.

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So

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Ayush Singhvi: Oh, I don't think so.

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I don't think that's accurate.

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Uh, I think.

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A lot of, uh, kind of early stage

founders try and look for a CTO.

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Um, but that doesn't typically work

out because most engineers who are

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competent don't want to work at a

company that has no validation and no

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traction and no product or any of that.

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Right.

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So that typically doesn't work.

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And then the founders end up working

with, uh, you know, Sometimes dev

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shops, sometimes, uh, like us, sometimes

they do manage to found a, find a co

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founder, but that, that is very rare.

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And they have to show a lot of kind

of validation to be able to do that.

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Right.

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So they either have to invest a

lot of money onto the company and

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pay a decent salary for a technical

co founder, or they have to.

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show that the business is already

validated or they have to show

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like history of entrepreneurship

that they've built and sold

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companies in the past, right?

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So it's typically difficult for

like first time founders to get a,

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you know, find a CTO to work with.

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Upendra Varma: makes a lot of sense.

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Uh, and like, have you raised any

external funding so far to build your

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company or it's completely bootstrap?

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Ayush Singhvi: Yeah.

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Upendra Varma: But can you guys

give us a sense of, you know, the

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approximate revenue that you're

doing overall as a company today?

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Ayush Singhvi: Um, no, I

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Upendra Varma: revenues totally

like a broad range totally works.

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Right.

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So in

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Ayush Singhvi: We're, we're, I mean,

we're under a million dollars right now.

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Upendra Varma: Yeah, that, that, that,

that makes a lot of sense, right?

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Yeah, thanks, Ayush.

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Thanks for taking the time to talk to me.

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Hope you scale your company

to much, much greater heights.

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Ayush Singhvi: Cheers, man.

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Thank you for having me